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Conatus
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PostSubject: Political Philosophy   Sun Jan 18, 2009 6:54 am

What politics do you encourage and why?

Im a progressive reformist, social-democrat. I believe freedom cannot exist without a certain amount of economic equality.

Whats your thoughts on the state and on capitalism and religion?
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The Philosopher
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PostSubject: Re: Political Philosophy   Sun Jan 18, 2009 11:44 pm


Christianity has been the source of many criticisms of capitalism, particularly its materialist aspects. Many early and pre-socialist movements as well as later ones drew principles from the Gospels (see Christian socialism and the Social Gospel movement) and against the "values" of profiteering, greed, selfishness and hoarding. Today there are many Protestant denominations (particularly in the United States) who are reconciled with or ardently in favour of capitalism, particularly in opposition to secular socialism.

The rich get richer and the poor get poorer.
Of course this must be prettied up so some where in books it will speak about the most efficient allocation of scarce resources, the most competitive price in a free market, the accumulation of capitol to fund new business ventures, and the fair distribution of wealth. these are all bullony based on the precepts of a perfectly free market with no manipulation and perfect knowledge of the market by all participants. So the disadvantages are the accumulation of wealth and power by a small elite who use it to further their own interest over the interest of society as a whole.
I doubt if this helps but it is a try.


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"He who fights monsters should see to it that in the process, he does not become a monster. And when you look into the abyss, the abyss also looks into you." - Nietzche
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PostSubject: Re: Political Philosophy   Mon Jan 19, 2009 1:30 am

For myself, trying to vote in a 3 party system is like trying to decide which one I like better:

25 %, or $.025, or 1/4.

Each are slightly different, bu in the end they all amount to the same.

I also like what Douglas Adams says:

“Anyone who is capable of getting themselves made President
should on no account be allowed to do the job...
Those people who want to rule other people, are those least suited to do it.”
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Conatus
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PostSubject: Re: Political Philosophy   Mon Jan 19, 2009 1:56 am

One can of course be obnoxious and not exercise once democratic rigthts, though that rarely helps anyone. Capitalism is by far the most brutal system ever inflicted on human kind, but what are the alternatives? Communism has been tried and it didnt work out, whats left, anarchism?

World renown philosopher Noam Chomsky argues in this lecture from 1970.
I think his stance here are correct.

http://www.pentaside.org/article/chomsky-govt-in-the-future.html

Roughly speaking, I think its accurate to say that a corporate elite of managers and owners governs the economy and the political system as well, at least in a very large measure. The people, so-called, do exercise an occasional choice among those who Marx once called "the rival factions and adventurers of the ruling class". And those who find this characterization too harsh may prefer the formulations of a modern democratic theorist like Joseph Schumpeter, who describes modern political democracy, favorably, "as a system in which the deciding of issues by the electorate is secondary to the election of the men who ought to do the deciding. The political parties", he says, accurately, "is a group whose members propose to act in concert in the competitive struggle for political power. If that were not so, it would be impossible for different parties to adopt exactly or almost exactly the same program." That's all the advantages of political democracy as he sees it.

[54:49]

This program, that both parties adopt more or less exactly, and the individuals who compete for power, they express a narrow conservative ideology, basically the interests of one or other element in the corporate elite, with some modifications. Now this is obviously no conspiracy, I think it is simply implicit in the system of corporate capitalism. These people and the institutions they represent are in effect in power and their interests are the national interests. It is this interest that is served primarily and overwhelmingly by the overseas empire and the growing system of military state capitalism at home.

[55:25]

If we were to withdraw the consent of the governed, as I think we should, we are withdrawing our consent to have these men and the interests they represent; govern and manage American society and impose their concept of world order and their criteria for legitimate political and economic development in much of the world. Although an immense effort of propaganda and mystification is carried on to conceal these facts, nonetheless facts they remain.

[55:52]

We have today the technical and material resources to meet man's animal needs. We have not developed the cultural and moral resources or the democratic forms of social organization that make possible the humane and rational use of our material wealth and power. Conceivably, the classical liberal ideals, as expressed and developed in their libertarian socialist form, are achievable. But if so, only by a popular revolutionary movement, rooted in wide strata of the population, and committed to the elimination of repressive and authoritarian institutions, state and private. To create such a movement is a challenge we face and must meet if there is to be an escape from contemporary barbarism.
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PostSubject: Re: Political Philosophy   Mon Feb 09, 2009 12:19 am

In Marx's theory, communism is actually the next stage of capitalist society. eventually, the utopian socialist state will be develop logically. I must say that there are still much possibility for the world to go through such development process. and i am much convinced by Marxism as far as i know.

In the last century, the attempts made by some countries, including China nowadays, were not following the expected path of Marxism. Yet, the theory was made use to grasp political power. Many politians like Stalin, Lenin, or Mao changed the theory into their own political favour. and none of them were practiced in pure communist way. In fact, they were practiced when capitalism was still flourishing in the rest of the world. This could only desperately end up in wars and rivaries.

Sure enough, politics is nothing beautiful. but its a necessary transition stage because the world exists different races and countries which made up competitors of each other. It is where the foolish human destruction against human originated.

to my perfection, the world has no boundaries as human has finally known that they are all the same and in one. Right, we can call it is a real sociaist world, but there is no difference anymore.
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PostSubject: Re: Political Philosophy   Mon Feb 09, 2009 12:29 am

as for wht human can do now, is to exchange culture, learn and evolve until they finally have a common value. its gonna take long long time, probably longer than the entire human history. The process go on and on. But i am not optimistic about this because these are all imaginated perfection of mine where all possible problems are eliminated. And i dont encourage human to think about future too far because we are all living in the moment which is the only truth i believe.
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PostSubject: Re: Political Philosophy   Sun Feb 15, 2009 9:03 pm

Winglee wrote:
In Marx's theory, communism is actually the next stage of capitalist society. eventually, the utopian socialist state will be develop logically. I must say that there are still much possibility for the world to go through such development process. and i am much convinced by Marxism as far as i know.

In the last century, the attempts made by some countries, including China nowadays, were not following the expected path of Marxism. Yet, the theory was made use to grasp political power. Many politians like Stalin, Lenin, or Mao changed the theory into their own political favour. and none of them were practiced in pure communist way. In fact, they were practiced when capitalism was still flourishing in the rest of the world. This could only desperately end up in wars and rivaries.

Sure enough, politics is nothing beautiful. but its a necessary transition stage because the world exists different races and countries which made up competitors of each other. It is where the foolish human destruction against human originated.

to my perfection, the world has no boundaries as human has finally known that they are all the same and in one. Right, we can call it is a real sociaist world, but there is no difference anymore.

Thanks for answering winglee.

Yes I know that communism, according to Marx is the very movement and upheaval of the current conditions, that is, the conditions were facing, nationstates controlled by capital concentration. I would argue this is not freedom and if man kind wishes to survive she needs to form institutions that could overlive and survive capitalism. We should all ask ourselves how we, in this manner, could produce communism, how could we all try to come together for a better world.
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PostSubject: Re: Political Philosophy   Sun Feb 15, 2009 9:07 pm

Winglee wrote:
as for wht human can do now, is to exchange culture, learn and evolve until they finally have a common value. its gonna take long long time, probably longer than the entire human history. The process go on and on. But i am not optimistic about this because these are all imaginated perfection of mine where all possible problems are eliminated. And i dont encourage human to think about future too far because we are all living in the moment which is the only truth i believe.

I believe this is happenign right now, culture is coming more and more together thanks to faster communications. I agree this will take long time, but were alla humans, and share a alot of values. "The pessimism of the intellect, the will of the optimism" as Antonio Gramsci said. Wink
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